[CF-metadata] new chemical species

[Philip J. Cameron-smith]

Hi Christiane, et al.,

Thank you for taking on the task of upgrading CF to include atmospheric 
chemistry.  I see a lot of long-term benefit for the atmospheric chemistry 
community, so I am very grateful for your efforts.

For those who didn't read my original email to Christine, I'm an 
atmospheric chemist working at Lawrence Livermore (down the hall from Karl 
Taylor), and I'm fairly new to the CF mailing list.

In the short-term it may be feasible to handle this as individual cases 
for each specie and quantity, but down-the-road I think this will become 
unwieldy.

I regularly see more than 100 species in global models, and the species 
included in those hundred will change depending on the problem being 
studied.  I agree that for intercomparisons only a subset is likely to be 
requested, but different intercomparisons will want different species, and 
I think the union of the sets of species used in intercomparisons will 
likely exceed 100 in the near future, and the number is likely to increase 
down the road.  I note that you already have around 70 species listed at 
the website:

http://wiki.esipfed.org/index.php/CF_Standard_Names_-_Construction_of_Atmospheric_Chemistry_and_Aerosol_Terms

I see two problems associated with this large number of species:

First, the list of CF standard names will ultimately become very long 
(with concentrations, tendencies, emissions, depositions, and many other 
quantities for each specie)

Second, unless proposers are very diligent, or there is some mechanism to 
avoid it, there will end up being a lot of 'holes' in the convention. 
For example, long lists of wet_deposition_of_X, and emission_of_Y, could 
be added, but with X and Y being different sets which only partially 
overlap.

Would it make more sense to represent chemical quantities under CF by 
splitting the standard name into two pieces, e.g. 'Quantity_of_X' and 
'X_is_species_name' ?  This would address both of my concerns above.

Best wishes,

      Philip

On Wed, 11 Jul 2007, Christiane Textor wrote:

> Hi Philip,
>
> The names I have suggested are those commonly used in atmospheric models and 
> have been suggested within the HTAP community. In such models, it is not 
> possible to simulate >1000 species, and the proposed serve as placeholders if 
> you like.
>
> Best regards,
> Christiane
>
> Philip J. Cameron-smith a écrit :
>> 
>> Hi Christiane,
>> 
>> I'm an atmospheric chemist working at Lawrence Livermore (down the hall 
>> from Karl Taylor), and I'm fairly new to the CF mailing list.
>> 
>> I'm not sure of the context of your question.  Are you looking for a list 
>> of all the chemistry species of possible interest to atmospheric chemists, 
>> a list of 'common hydrocarbons', or something else?  A list of possible 
>> gas-phase species could easily be over 1,000 long.
>> 
>> Best wishes,
>>
>>      Philip
>> 
>> 
>> On Tue, 10 Jul 2007, Christiane Textor wrote:
>> 
>>> Dear all,
>>> 
>>> I would like additional suggestions of new names:
>>> 
>>> mole_fraction_of_carbon_dioxide_in_air
>>> mole_fraction_of_methane_in_air
>>> mole_fraction_of_formaldehyde_in_air
>>> mole_fraction_of_ethane_in_air
>>> mole_fraction_of_ethene_in_air
>>> mole_fraction_of_ethyne_in_air
>>> mole_fraction_of_propane_in_air
>>> mole_fraction_of_propene_in_air
>>> mole_fraction_of_benzene_in_air
>>> mole_fraction_of_toluene_in_air
>>> mole_fraction_of_xylene_in_air
>>> mole_fraction_of_isoprene_in_air
>>> 
>>> Best regards,
>>> Christiane
>>> 
>>> 
>>> -- 
>>> ==new affiliation==new affiliation==new affiliation==new affiliation==
>>> 
>>> Christiane Textor
>>> Laboratoire des Sciences du Climat et de l'Environnement
>>> Unite Mixte de Recherche CEA-CNRS-UVSQ
>>> 
>>> LSCE, CEA Saclay
>>> L'Orme des Merisiers, Bat. 701 Piece 3b
>>> mailto: christiane.textor at lsce.ipsl.fr
>>> Tel ++33 1 69 08 34 07
>>> F-91191 Gif-sur-Yvette Cedex
>>> FRANCE
>>> 
>>> GEOMON scientific project manager http://www.geomon.eu
>>> ======================================================================
>>> 
>>> 
>>> _______________________________________________
>>> CF-metadata mailing list
>>> CF-metadata at cgd.ucar.edu
>>> http://mailman.cgd.ucar.edu/mailman/listinfo/cf-metadata
>>> 
>> 
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>> Dr Philip Cameron-Smith        Energy & Environment Directorate
>> pjc at llnl.gov                   Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
>> +1 925 4236634                 7000 East Avenue, Livermore, CA94550, USA
>> ------------------------------------------------------------------------
>
> -- 
> ==new affiliation==new affiliation==new affiliation==new affiliation==
>
> Christiane Textor
> Laboratoire des Sciences du Climat et de l'Environnement
> Unite Mixte de Recherche CEA-CNRS-UVSQ
>
> LSCE, CEA Saclay
> L'Orme des Merisiers, Bat. 701 Piece 3b
> mailto: christiane.textor at lsce.ipsl.fr
> Tel ++33 1 69 08 34 07
> F-91191 Gif-sur-Yvette Cedex
> FRANCE
>
> GEOMON scientific project manager http://www.geomon.eu
> ======================================================================
>

------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dr Philip Cameron-Smith        Energy & Environment Directorate
pjc at llnl.gov                   Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory
+1 925 4236634                 7000 East Avenue, Livermore, CA94550, USA
------------------------------------------------------------------------